Curse

Div · Mar 02, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

I like how people think that casting one skill is enough to stop an entire spike. It's there to buy enough time to get another skill in to save the spike.

Doji · Mar 02, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

wut if dey gael da monk'n shaem or diversan him. wut do u do toomay

Zuranthium · Mar 02, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I like how people think that casting one skill is enough to stop an entire spike. It's there to buy enough time to get another skill in to save the spike.

If it's a real spike, there isn't time to get another skill in.

~Z

Div · Mar 02, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

If it's a real spike, there isn't time to get another skill in.

~Z

So by that definition you're screwed either way regardless of what you have. And how many times are these "real spikes" going to occur in a match? Twice? Three times? Dervspike is definitely too strong, but people are making it seem like the perfect build that no one can stop.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 02, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

It's still really insanely boring to play and play against, though. ):

You don't seem to mind playing it though.

romO · Mar 02, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

If one RoF can stop a spike then it's just a pressure spike, not a *true* spike.

Hmm I'd argue it's the complete opposite. I've always seen 'true spikes' as obs flame spike and things like that where you try to kill the target cleanly. Obviously one RoF is going to catch an obs flame spike, and the only way it will kill is by spiking so fast that reaction time cannot stop it. If you can get skills off and the target will still die due to afterspike damage, it's more of a train.

jaeharys targaryen · Mar 02, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Pact

Better than yours... Ever seen a single RoF save any kind of spike (except the garbage mentioned)?

i lol'd hard

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 02, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

tommy can you sign my axe please

Phe Belladona · Mar 02, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

its a vile build and its all well and good saying RoF > it BUT you need to consider the BBot galing your prot and you cant stop it cause it has mantra of concentration (and im aware PBlock goes through that but we're not here to try and say its worth running) and at the same time they do happen to have a mesmer who incase the 2 grenth auras werent enough has EC/Shatter too and can quite happily play defensive all match cause frankly YOUR DEFENSES DONT MEAN SHIT TO THIS SPIKE and the mother RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOer of it all THEY TELEPORT!!! anet needs to DESTROY shadowstepping completely its allows the most debased shit i've ever seen nothing good has come of it only evil, EVIL I TELLS YA SEND IT BACK TO HELL!!

Zuranthium · Mar 02, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

Hmm I'd argue it's the complete opposite. I've always seen 'true spikes' as obs flame spike and things like that where you try to kill the target cleanly. Obviously one RoF is going to catch an obs flame spike, and the only way it will kill is by spiking so fast that reaction time cannot stop it. If you can get skills off and the target will still die due to afterspike damage, it's more of a train.

RoF may have caught Obs Flame spike, but it does not catch a strong Derv spike. If you've been catching it with RoF in your matches, it's because your mid-line is doing their part to mitigate (perhaps you thought this part of the argument was already understood?).

A standard Obs Flame spike isn't clean (cast as soon as you see the purple arrow) but it's very close. The build gets kills by just going and going and going until human error happens and the Monks fail to react with absolute precision.

Dervspike and Ranger spike can be clean if you don't recognize the target before the damage happens. The former has teleports and AoE damage to help that cause and the latter has distance.

FoC spike and some of those pre-nerf 8-Rit builds are probably the only *true* clean (ie. everyone uses 1 skill and the target drops) ranged spike builds the game has seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

So by that definition you're screwed either way regardless of what you have. And how many times are these "real spikes" going to occur in a match? Twice? Three times? Dervspike is definitely too strong, but people are making it seem like the perfect build that no one can stop.

I can't comment on how many times that will happen. Totally depends on how well they coordinate and how well your team shuts them down.

You're not totally screwed on Monking alone if your timing works out and you have Infuse or an H-Booned Heal Other. Obviously this is problematic if they attack that Monk, though.

To be clear, I don't think Dervspike is the most overpowered thing we've ever seen but the combination of everything is really a bit too much and it's the ability to tele-spike with non-Dagger weapons that should be changed.

~Z

miraaz · Mar 02, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

I hope you realize how much of a joke this opinion of yours has become.

If you only play against garbage Derv spike that's great, but it's still a broken and ridiculous build.

But if its so broken and ridiculous build, why are people coming to GwG to whine about it, instead of searching for something to counter it?

And for the sake of you guys, it would be time to learn that PvP is DEAD. EVERYTHING or ANYTHING you play around there is called LAME and RETARDED. It has been stated many times before, and I'll state it again. Its absolutely POINTLESS to come to a forum and then start whining about it. If everyone would do that, the forums would be flooded in less than an hour.

Mr Fizzle · Mar 02, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraaz

But if its so broken and ridiculous build, why are people coming to GwG to whine about it, instead of searching for something to counter it?

And for the sake of you guys, it would be time to learn that Guild Wars is DEAD. EVERYTHING or ANYTHING you play around there is called LAME and RETARDED. It has been stated many times before, and I'll state it again. Its absolutely POINTLESS to come to a forum and then start whining about it. If everyone would do that, the forums would be flooded in less than an hour.

Corrected,but besides being besides the point. Everyone and their mother is running derv spike,and it makes me angry.

Elisabet Ramsey · Mar 02, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fizzle

Corrected,but besides being besides the point. Everyone and their mother is running derv spike,and it makes me angry.

Lol you're not the only one

Div · Mar 02, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fizzle

Corrected,but besides being besides the point. Everyone and their mother is running derv spike,and it makes me angry.

That's because most Americans are too stubborn to run sinsplit

Otherwise you'd see dervspike+sinsplit! Like HGH tonight...

C2K · Mar 02, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Derv spike is so easy to pull off because of the synergy with the enchantments with the 2 attacks in the spike. If you were to strip the Grenth's Aura, or the attackers insight, maybe even the guided hands a few teams run, It could lessen the impact of the impending spike.

Since Grenth's Aura must be removed by Pious Assault for the spike to have full effect, one of those 3 enchantments needs to be in front of the dervish's enchantment line. The best solutions I can think of going about this are in the necro class since they have mass enchantment removal, but since the structure of the enchantments has to leave Grenth's Aura somewhere near the front, normal enchantment renewal could work too.

But, I don't know if countering it really needs to be thought out, as a skill balance update is scheduled for next week, and with all the uproar, something is probably going to be done about it.

And as for complaining about it on an Elite Fansite, it does work. While not all the desired changes may be used, it can effect skill balance changes in the future. A good example is the last skill balance update. So yeah, complaining can help.

6am3 Fana71c · Mar 02, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Okay, random suggestion:
Maybe add: "Ends prematurely if you cast another enchantment" to Attacker's Insight, so you can't cover it with Grenth's Aura. So that would mean, dervishes can no longer save 15 energy that way, which would be enough to cripple them a bit, since they have small energy pool anyway.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Mar 02, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraaz

But if its so broken and ridiculous build, why are people coming to GwG to whine about it, instead of searching for something to counter it?

And for the sake of you guys, it would be time to learn that PvP is DEAD. EVERYTHING or ANYTHING you play around there is called LAME and RETARDED. It has been stated many times before, and I'll state it again. Its absolutely POINTLESS to come to a forum and then start whining about it. If everyone would do that, the forums would be flooded in less than an hour.

The OP was whining a bit, but everyone else is simply discussing/arguing over dervspike. Mind you, CONSTRUCTIVE discussion, they're getting stuff done.

EDIT: OP now that I look back, the OP isnt really whiny at all.

Mr Fizzle · Mar 02, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshikuni Mahsu

The OP was whining a bit, but everyone else is simply discussing/arguing over dervspike. Mind you, CONSTRUCTIVE discussion, they're getting stuff done.

EDIT: OP now that I look back, the OP isnt really whiny at all.

Thanks for that,personally the way my guild has been countering derv spike is a simple change to Frozen and then hope we don't play on their hall. :S

assassin of the god · Mar 02, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Nerf Grenths and the build is fine. The fact that preprot is close to useless and that EC is unstoppable is whats broken.

romO · Mar 02, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Pious needs to be a normal attack instead of a quick attack.